A Conversation with Pat Buchanan (continued)

PM: Well, it's an inspired partnership, you and DeMain. He's always been one of my favorite tunesmiths since we met in the '80s, but his work with you is very special to me.

PB: Wow, man. Well, it's just like he came to a couple gigs, and he had this band called Swan Dive, and gave me a tape. And I just have been playing with them for ten years now.

PM: Wow! Ten years!

PB: And we're playing this Saturday at The Basement.

PM: Damn! Every time Swan Dive plays, I'm out of town. I'm in Austin this Saturday.

PB: Oh, man!

PM: It happens to me every time.

PB: That's a bummer. But I remember like one of our father's favorite records was Frank Sinatra, Live at the Sands.

PM: Wow. He says that you're a great co-writer because you have an endless amount of ideas and melodies that come flying off your hands.

PB: Where does that come from? I mean, it's like there's that melody--the chord melody guy, Burt Bacharach or Elton John.

PM: Yeah.

PB: And then the lyricist guy. And even for a while there, maybe I thought, well, I'm not worth a shit if I can't do both. But then it was like, I mean, I've written so many songs with Bill now.

PM: And that's your process, right? He turns over the words, and you take it from there?

PB: Now, a lot of times we will write that way. We'll write maybe--like Bill does do a lot of stand-alone lyric writing. But a lot of our stuff--when we got to together--we actually started writing together pretty early on. Maybe '95--maybe '94 or '95. We would write together, and we would actually like write a lot of na, na, type of melodies, and he would come back and put lyrics to those melodies. We would do three or four at time. And we got pretty good at just arranging a song, going ahead and whacking up an arrangement, then adding lyrics, or getting little bits and pieces. You might get a lyrical idea or a title idea. Like "Genius of the Obvious."

PM: Right.

PB: And then at some point--I mean, he did have a lot of stand-alone lyrics. I think maybe one the first ones that I put the music to a stand-alone lyric might have been "All the Umbrellas" on the Idle Jets' record. And just boom, it popped out--he has a way with phrasing--I mean, Bill is still a great songwriter and a great--he always kind of can write phrasing to where I can see his phrasing. And I've tried to do this with a couple other writers, and it didn't work as well as it works with Bill. But I can kind of maybe see a rhythm that might unlock a cadence, and kind of try to follow that.

PM: Right. He has a way of using less words, so it makes way for better rhythms and stuff.

PB: Oh, yeah, that's very true. Yeah, some of his words, he can really get slightly abstract and artistic--

PM: Sure.

PB: --like the greatest John Lennon or Neil Finn lyric.

PM: Yep.

PB: But that's just a truly amazing collaboration. So it's kind of this like yin-yang thing that I've been able to do as a side person, and as a person that's playing on records, and all the while kind of never giving up on my artistic thing.

PM: Well, it's like wanting to have a rock band when you first got to town and started doing sessions, you seemed to know that right off the bat that, "Well, I've got to serve both sides of myself. I've got to play my own music, and I got to play on records." Is there any idea of how many records you're on?

PB: Oh, there's pages of it, I think. And I'm a little bit bad at updating my resume and stuff. And now there's kind of--you can go on allmusic.com, or musicdirect, and type in my name, and see there are a bunch of records.

PM: It's getting a bit long.

PB: Yeah, I've been very fortunate. I don't know an exact number, but I do know I've been extremely fortunate to be able to play on records.

PM: So how many DeMain co-writes are on Idle Jets? [Pat's first "solo" recording]

PB: Actually, I think all but one.

PM: Wow.

PB: I'll tell you what, we've got like an album's worth of songs that we actually need to do. And Bill had this great idea. You remember like those old VeeJay records like "The Beatles versus the Four Seasons."

[laughter]

PB: Like a Celebrity Death Match kind of thing.

PM: Bill Lloyd versus Pat Bucahnan.

PB: Yeah. But we actually have enough songs between us to do that, and we just kind of haven't gotten around to doing it yet. And then on the next record--on the second record with Brad, I think those are all Bill DeMain co-writes.

PM: Yeah, those are all Bill DeMain co-writes. And that, to me, is one fantastic record, the eponymous.

PB: Oh, man, well, thank you so much. Yeah, that record was done really quickly. And it was liberating to do it quickly. I mean, it was like fast two songs, two days, done, mixed, see ya.

PM: Wow.

PB: So I would just sit with the great Greg Morrow and Brad Jones and bring in like a piece of a song, and go, "Hey, here's a piece of a song that I think is pretty good." And those guys together could arrange it and help me arrange it and everything.

PM: Wow. Greg Morrow is like that? [He’s well known as a great studio drummer.]

PB: Greg's got an incredible talent for that. And I've done all my records with him, just sitting there with a guitar and him.

PM: Is he a songwriter, too, Greg Morrow?

PB: Well, he's not a songwriter in the literal sense, but he has an amazing gift for just being able to feel what the song needs. I mean, he's from Memphis.

PM: Yeah.

PB: And he's just so great at understanding how to arrange something. And even placing it to the point where--like say "Lady Satellite" on the Idle Jets record, like putting it in a [makes drum noises] groove. I mean, that's totally Greg's thing. And really offering just great arrangement suggestions and stuff, I mean, to the point where he really is a producer himself.

PM: My copy of Idle Jets is in storage with a lot of my life, and I really should get a copy of that from you if you've got one, so I can include clips from it in the issue. [Sorry, didn’t happen.]

PB: Oh, yeah, man. Okay.

PM: I want to have clips from all the solo records.

PB: Oh, great. Yeah, I will definitely get you one, man. I've got a few more here recently. But that one, and then the eponymous one, and now Saint George. I got to be honest with you, I heard--actually, my son called me the other day and he said, "Dad, you're on the radio!"

[laughter]

PM: What were they playing?

PB: They were playing "We'll Talk"--

PM: Ah. My favorite song, which I'm a freak for on Saint George is "Halo." I just play it over and over. It's sick how I play this over and over.

PB: Oh, cool! Well, "Halo" is an interesting thing. I mean, that song I did with Rusty McFarland and Greg at the Hum Depot, which is one of my favorite studios, where I did the first album, that's kind of no longer. But that song also further evolved in the live show. A lot of the songs have.

PM: Yeah.

PB: And Tom Bukovac is a really big catalyst in that.

PM: Tom Bukovac is a raving genius.

PB: Oh, yeah. He's another one of those freak guys. And so I have him, and Allison Prestwood and Greg in the live band. And then it can be a real different thing when I go to record. I'll record with David Henry.

PM: Right.

PB: I heard that Indiana record by David Mead.

PM: Oh, jeez, that record was unbelievable.

PB: I mean, I had all these songs, and I was trying to figure out what the glue was to make it sound cohesive, this new record, Saint George. I just heard that and stopped--pulled over and just went, "Oh, my God."

PM: "I hear glue."

PB: A huge light bulb did go off, just to do some things that were a little more orchestral. And there are a couple things in there that are quieter, more acoustic---

PM: Oh, definitely.

PB: --on this new thing. So I got together with David, and I mean, what a genius, it just clicked.

PM: Oh, yeah. Yeah, he's severely gifted.

PB: And there's a couple of songs, like "Patience" and then the first song, which I'm extremely proud of, "Sweet Amnesia."

PM: Yeah. I mean, it's a real leap forward--

PB: Oh, cool.

PM: --all the new bags it incorporates--adult contemporary and country blues--

PB: Yeah. [laughs]

PM: --and really--

PB: Versatility is a weird thing. And I mean, my concern with that--I really think we nailed it in, another great, great catalyst has been Jim DeMain, who co-produced the first one with me and Greg--a mighty, mighty producer/engineer, who just masters now.

PM: Jim DeMain co-produced the Idle Jets? [Jim is Bill’s talented brother, widely known as a great mastering guy in town, but his talents go beyond, into engineering itself, and producing.]

PB: Oh, yeah.

PM: See, I haven't had that record in my hands for a long time.

PB: Oh, yeah, I'll get you one, because it holds up.

PM: That's amazing. Jim is another unsung genius of sound.

PB: Oh, yeah, no doubt. In fact, when I met their dad--we went up and did a couple gigs and stayed with their parents--it was like meeting my parents again. It was so great. And big Jim, he said, "Hey, I already like you." And I'm going, "No, no, this is the truth. You guys are it."

[laughter]

PB: It was really funny. But he also mastered the new one.

PM: Right.

PB: So the point is I did a few with David Henry, a few with Rusty McFarland, one with Tom Bukovac at my place. And I was concerned about it being a little all over the map sounding, but I really feel like it holds together great.

PM: So what made you put this one out by yourself instead of with Not Lame, or look for a different label, or what--

PB: Yeah. Well, I'm still in the process of looking for a home for this one. Actually, just hard times in the indie world were really the only reason I didn't put it out with Not Lame. Bruce at Not Lame is a dear friend, and somebody who is one of the greatest music fans I've ever met, and a right-on guy. He still really supports music. He's having a bit of a hard time, as all indie guys are--

PM: He's just not putting out records right now.

PB: Well, he's still doing mail order.

PM: Right.

PB: But we weren't really doing it quite like Not Lame artists. But you can still buy it at Not Lame. And you can by it at CDBaby. And just right now until I find an American home and a UK home--

PM: Right.

PB: So the second one I put out in the UK with a guy, and we kind of co-ventured it. And it's kind of difficult for him, too, because, again, it's hard to do your own records on a shoestring budget.

PM: And with CDBaby you can get the iTunes things rocking. [Typically, CDBaby has a master plan for all interested indie artist to distribute their music digitally to many vendors. Derek Sivers is a utopian visionary. See our interview with him here.]

PB: Yeah.

PM: I think it is going to be more and more about downloads as time goes on.

PB: Yeah. And that's totally cool. I mean, CDBaby is a great--I love Derek at CDBaby. It's a great place to sell your music.

PM: Yeah, we're huge Derek Sivers fans.

PB: But I mean, hopefully this interview can help increase awareness about this record.

PM: Oh, yeah. Well, that's the idea. I'm sure it will.

PB: And it's interesting, I'll go over to England with Rodney Crowell and Will Kimbrough--we did that early--it was in October. And we did an acoustic trio. Rodney is another incredible cosmic soul brother, another huge part of--somebody who just welcomed me right in.

PM: I've got to do a Rodney interview, and I need somebody to hook me up.

PB: Oh, okay. Oh, I can do that. I would love to do that.

PM: Great.

PB: But he would like--he'd be in the middle of our set, and he'd go, "Well, I've sang enough. You guys sing"--to me and Will.

[laughter]

PB: And then we'd sell a bunch of CDs. It was really great.

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