RS:
I don't know what to think.
I mean, my kids are 15 and 11,
so I hear all that music. I've
got a pretty good idea of what's
out there. Like anything, I
think some of it is really quite
good. I do feel that there's
a kind of, umm... I don't know
if it's a dumbing down, or whatever.
But, especially in the boy bands,
the songs just all sound the
same to me. You can't really
tell one from the other. I don't
see a lot of character in the
writing. Those type of complaints
I have. I try not to get too
negative about it, because I
can see that it's striking a
chord with my kids, for whatever
reason.
PM:
The music that struck a chord
with us at their age had a little
bit more going on.
RS:
I think so. It feels like they're
going backwards, in a way. In
the early 60's, there was a lot
of bubblegum stuff, and singers
like Frankie Avalon. They had
their moment, and then out of
the blue came Dylan, and Joni
Mitchell, and the Beatles, and
everything changed. And pop music
started to get taken a little
more seriously. I felt like it
was moving along quite nicely.
Every now and then it would have
to reinvent itself, like the whole
punk thing, because things were
getting a bit out of hand. And
that was great, that was healthy.
And I think that hip hop was a
healthy thing to happen, too,
when it came on to the scene.
But now I find it's getting a
bit tiresome. Did you ever see
those horrible talk shows where
they have the teenagers that the
parents can't control?
PM:
Jerry Springer.
RS:
Yeah, so they send them off
to boot camp.
PM:
I've seen that very one.
RS:
And the army guy comes out and
yells at them. To me, a lot of
the hip hop around sounds like
that. Like some guy yelling at
me all the time. But I have to
say I think that Eminem is really
quite brilliant. I don't agree
with everything he has to say,
but when my son has his record
on, I find it really compelling,
I can't really turn away from
it, you know?
PM: Well, that's the
first thing I ever heard that
made me want to listen to an
Eminem record.
RS:
I mean, obviously he's purging
a lot of stuff, and just laying
it all out there. And, like I
say, a lot of it's a bit over
the top, but at the same time,
I think that he's doing it in
a way that's exciting. But a lot
of that stuff just seems to be
bragging.
PM:
Sexual bragging.
RS:
Right, sexual bragging and macho
posing, that kind of thing.
But my whole thing has always
been about melody. So that's
what I'm trying to do in my
own little way. Trying to get
these melodies out there. That's
always been the thing that's
drawn me to music, and I'm still
looking for it. I'm hoping maybe
there will be a turnaround,
where things will get less groove
oriented and get back to quality
songs.
PM:
Your lyrics are great, but many
of us feel that as a melodist,
if you will, you're truly rare.
Is it just a natural facility,
or do you work hard to craft
and create that aspect of your
songs?
RS:
Well, melody is always the easiest
part for me. I tend to come
up with them just walking around.
I tend to hum to myself when
I walk around. So the hard part
for me is finding the words,
and fitting them with the melody.
I think the best songs are kind
of a seamless marriage of words
and melody.
PM:
Sure, the words have to roll.
RS:
They have to roll with it, and
they can't set off the cringe
mechanism, or they can't get
in the way. I'm pretty old fashioned
that way, and I work hard on
that part. Generally what happens
is that I'll get a melody or
I'll get a phrase, and everything
kind of opens up, I can see
that there's potential there
for a song. And that will take
you so far, maybe you'll get
a few lines, and the rest is,
relatively speaking, hard work.
You're thinking about it, and
you're scribbling stuff down.
There have been times when I've
started with a complete lyric,
too, and I've had to craft the
melody. But in general, the
melody seems to come first.
PM:
What are you listening to lately,
and what might you be reading?
RS:
Well, I'm reading my first Dostoevsky
book. He's someone that I always
wanted to read, and never got
around to it. I'm reading Crime
and Punishment.
PM:
That's a mouthful.
RS:
Yeah. Well, I always loved Dickens,
he's probably my favorite. I
think I have four more books
to go, and then will have read
all of his works. And I heard
that Dostoevsky was a big Dickens
fan.
PM:
Really?
RS:
Yeah, apparently he was his favorite
writer. So it made me curious
about checking his work out. He's
a little darker than Dickens.
So, I've been reading that. And
what have I been listening to?...let's
see, there's a songwriter up here
in Canada who's one of my favorite
writers, his name is Kyp Harness.
Actually, I recorded one of his
songs on my upcoming album. But
he's one of those guys, you know.
He's made a few independent records,
but the labels won't touch him.
It's like Dylan or something,
they don't think he can sing very
well. But I love his voice, and
I love his writing. So I've been
listening a lot to his new record,
it isn't out yet. He's trying
to figure out what to do with
it, or how to release it. So I'm
hoping that my covering his song
may turn some people on to his
stuff. I'm listening to the new
Steve Forbert one, I just saw
him last night in Toronto. It
was good to see him.
PM:
He's really good on stage.
RS:
Oh yeah. And he hasn't aged
a bit, he still looks fifteen,
or something. So I'm checking
that out. I actually like the
new U2 album quite a bit. Not
everything on it, but the best
songs, like "Stuck in the
Moment," I really like.
PM:
They seem to be back to a more
essential bag.
RS:
I think the last few years they've
spent trying to shake that over-serious
image that they were building
with the Joshua Tree
album. So they did all these
experimental, Euro pop things.
Some of that I thought was pretty
good. I thought that Achtung,
Baby was a good record.
This one seems more like a return
to what they are, a band playing
songs. I've also been going
back and buying some of my favorite
albums on CD, that I never had
before. Especially since some
of my records are still in the
old place.
PM:
Yeah, they're always the first
thing to go.
RS:
So I've been trying to get some
of them back, anyhow.
PM:
Steve Earle is back on the road,
and Brad Jones is in Spain.
RS:
What's he doing in Spain?
PM:
Producing some band, and then
he's going to Italy. It's tough.
You're my only hope of getting
bumped a copy of that unreleased
record. Any chance of that?
RS:
What, my new record? You could
probably get one through my
manager, because I don't even
have a copy right now of the
final sequence. It's changed
about four times, I think I'm
driving everybody up the wall.
You know how it is, when you
have too much time to think.
So I've been listening to it
and worrying about it, and I
kept dropping songs and adding
songs. We finally put our foot
down, and I'm waiting to get
my copy of the final sequence.
PM:
You've already accomplished
so much, especially in the arena
of the admiration of famous
peers. What goals are still
looming?
RS:
Well, I'm always trying to just
write better, you know? When
I think of some of the great
songs like "Stardust,"
I mean, I don't think anybody's
come close to that song. I'm
just trying to get better. I
was at a friend's house the
other day, and we were sitting
around the piano, he had a Stephen
Foster songbook. And it was
so great to sit there and play
"Gentle Annie" and "Camptown
Racetrack," and all those
songs. That's what it's all
about for me, ultimately. When
I'm gone, I hope that I leave
behind a whole bunch of songs.
Hopefully, there will be more
good ones than bad ones. Maybe
someday people will be sitting
around a piano...
PM:
And play a good old Ron Sexsmith
tune.
RS:
Yeah. I mean, I'm trying to
make good records. But when
it's all said and done, they're
just moments in time. I did
"Secret Heart" back in '94,
and that's how I sang it, and
this is who played on it, but
it's never really been the same
since. And some night in Pittsburgh
years later I'll sing the best
version of it ever, when there's
no tape recorders around. So
I just try to stay focused,
and that's my main goal. And
also, I would like to have more
of a breakthrough with one of
these records, so I wouldn't
have to feel so insecure financially.
But I'm not too concerned, I'm
just trying to get on with the
work, and hopefully everything
else will fall into place.
PM:
Speaking of "Stardust" are you
getting that incredible Ken
Burns series Jazz
up
there?
RS: Oh yeah, on the PBS
channel. The photos are incredible.
They'll be talking about something,
and they'll show a photo that
will emphasize the point. I
don't know where they dug that
stuff up.
PM:
He's a rare historian. I thought
Baseball and The Civil
War were good, but this
is the best.
RS:
And that's another thing I've
been listening to, the Ken Burns
box set of American Music. It's
the companion piece to the TV
show. It's a five CD set, with
a version of "Stardust" by Louis
Armstrong. I've been listening
to that quite a bit.
PM:
Do you mind if I ask you about
your spiritual life, do you
have any special affiliations
or inclinations in that area?
RS:
It's something I'm always trying
to work out, I'm not a religious
person. I just don't really
know what to think sometimes.
When I was a kid, I went to
Sunday school, and was a Protestant.
And I used to have this idea,
I was talking about this a bit
on my last record, and I always
felt like a total freak talking
about it. But I used to think
that God was in the sun, somehow,
when I was a kid. And I used
to talk to the sun all the time,
on my way to school and stuff.
And it's something that I've
kept up throughout my life.
I remember when I was a courier
in my 20's, every now and then
I would be reminded of it. I
guess that's the important thing
for me, to have some kind of
dialogue with God. Not so much
about going to church, or the
guilt that goes along with most
organized religions. Most of
those churches, all they talk
about is abstinence. I think,
really, it's all about experience.
PM:
Took the words right out of
my mouth.
RS:
Because most people, they don't
want to find things out for
themselves. They want someone
to tell them the way. I think
it's good to find out for yourself,
and not take someone's word
for it.
PM:
Sure, I think life is a spiritual
matter, not a religious one.
RS:
Exactly. God certainly didn't
make the churches. And there's
so many different religions,
and so many enlightened people
that have come to earth [laughs]
who inspired people and who
were compelling. A lot of them
got laughed at and were crucified,
and all that.
PM:
Mostly.
RS:
Mostly, and I think that's true
to this day. Every now and then
there will be someone who comes
along and changes the world,
in a way, whether it's Charlie
Chaplin, or...
PM:
Mahatma Ghandi.
RS:
Yeah. I think that's very inspiring.
Someone like Christ, for instance.
His whole message wasn't "I'm
above everybody", he was saying
"What I can do, you can do".
PM:
Right.
RS:
Or what I have, you can have.
I think that's important. And
his biggest message was Forgiveness,
which I think is one of the
greatest words in language.
There's a lot of things that
can be taken from each religion,
you just have to find out for
yourself.
PM:
Are there other producers or
musicians with whom you still
hope to work?
RS:
There's a Swedish producer,
actually, that my manager works
with, we worked on the Ray Davies
song for the tribute album.
I really liked working with
him. He's very forward thinking.
The Steve Earle album is very
rock and roll, and very rootsy.
PM:
Like Steve.
RS:
Yeah, like Steve. And I just
thought it would be nice, for
my next record, to try something
that's a little more...I don't
know how to even describe it...something
that's kind of in both worlds,
you know?
PM:
Sure.
RS:
Because I'm coming from an old
school approach, but I don't
want to make retro sounding
records. So I'm gonna check
that out. I would definitely
love to work with Mitchell Froom
again. Daniel Lanois and I flirted
with the idea.
PM:
That would be a good record.
RS:
We almost made this record together,
the current one. The U2 thing
was taking up all his time.
PM:
Is there a question I haven't
asked that you'd like to ask
and answer for Puremusic?
RS: I'm not sure, really.
I feel like I've been yammering
away... [laughs] I can't think
of anything offhand.
PM:
It's generally a stumper, but
I like to ask.
RS:
Yeah.
PM:
Lastly, you have management,
friends, and associates here
in Nashville. Can we hope to
see more of you in Music City?
RS:
Nashville tends to be a place
where I get to quite frequently.
I used to go down every year
for that extravaganza, I guess
they have a different name for
it now.
PM:
I missed the last one, I was
in Philly. But yeah, they changed
the name.
RS:
It's in February, right?
PM:
Yes, I think so.
RS:
So it's possible I may make
it down this year. I don't know
if I'll actually play, but just
to show my face around [laughs]
or something. I'm sure I'll
get there a couple of times
this year, for shows or whatever.
PM:
Well, I hope we get to have
a cup of coffee or something.
RS:
Yeah, no trouble. That'd be
great.
PM:
Thanks for being gracious with
your time today. I really think
you're one of our best songwriters.
RS:
Wow, thanks. [laughs]
PM:
And I wish you even greater
success, for everyone's sake.
RS:
Thank you. Well, we'll see.
I'm not going anywhere. I keep
working at it. Hopefully one
of these records will take off.
Thanks.
PM:
Okay, Ron. Thanks so much, and
take good care of yourself.
RS:
You, too. Nice talking to you.
Cheers.
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