A Conversation with Mary Gauthier (continued)

MG: It was incredible. It was just incredible. I don't know if I'll ever--I mean, I could probably win a Grammy and never have that feeling, of going from--you know, my life was in the toilet. I mean, I really was low, low, low. And in a couple years I felt like I couldn't do anything wrong, like everything was just amazing, sliding into place without me putting that much effort into it. I mean, I put a lot of effort into writing those songs, and the rest of it just fell into place. I think, honestly--and I know this is going to sound silly, but--so much of the music business really is about the songs.

PM: [laughs]

MG: I mean, we're at that stage in music business history where everyone is convinced it's not about the songs, it's about huge PR, it's about sex appeal, it's about buying slots on radio, it's about purchasing magazine covers, it's about the big money push behind an artist. But that wasn't my experience. I had none of those things, and the songs broke through anyway. So I can't help but say, from my experience, that the songs really, really do matter.

PM: And I think it's most true in singer songwriter world, that the songs talk louder than anything.

MG: I think so.

PM: That's what makes it a really interesting market for grownups, because it's not all the external forces, all the tangential factors that are speaking. It's the central factors that are speaking. It's the tunes themselves.

MG: Yes. If the songs are crafted strongly enough, and if they're real and true enough, and you tell the story properly, a song has a power to crawl into someone's heart and make them feel something, and make them care about something. I was blessed with several songs that did that, and it completely changed my life.

PM: What are the songs that most changed your life, do you think, at that time?

MG: The song "I Drink" has been such a door opener for me. People love that song. When Crit and I wrote that song, I had no idea the power it would have all over the world.

PM: Is he much of a drinker?

MG: Ironically, I wrote "I Drink" as a sober person.

PM: Ah.

MG: It was me looking at what my life could have been like if I hadn't quit drinking. But I never mention that in the song, of course. The character in the song was someone who was an alcoholic. It was me hypothesizing about me, as if I never stopped drinking and what it would have been like. And that song has opened so many doors for me.

And then the story of the woman executed in Texas, it has the power to move people. It's just the story of what happened to her as I saw it. But with a story song, you have to lay the song out perfectly. One bad move, and a story song doesn't work. So the craftsmanship on it--those songs took about a year each to write. A year of just really, really rewriting. And rewriting, and rewriting. I probably did three or four hundred rewrites on both of those songs.

PM: Oh, that's beautiful. I think all songwriters need to hear that. That's incredible. Three or four hundred rewrites!?

MG: The thing is, Crit wouldn't let me stop. He kept saying, "It ain't right. It ain't right. It can be better, it can be better. It's so close. It's got to be perfect." I mean, I was ready to just put forks in my eyes. "This is the best I can do. This is it." "No, it ain't it. There's something wrong. I don't know what's wrong, but something ain't right."

PM: I was writing with a really good guy today, and we were picking out the lines that were not great. And he reminded me of something that Townes said. He said, "Hey, I'm competing with Mozart and Lightning Hopkins here. I can't accept any throwaway lines."

[laughter]

MG: The world doesn't need any more pretty good songs. There are way too many already. It needs to be great. And in order for it to be great, unless you're Dylan or Townes or Guy Clark or somebody who just has this amazingly huge natural talent, you've got to work your ass off. I'm one of those who can get to a great song if I work my ass off. But it doesn't come naturally, and it doesn't come easily. I mean, it's work. It makes restaurant work look like child's play, because every time you improve a line, then the whole rest of the song has to be improved.

PM: Right. So often the house of cards comes down with one great line.

MG: Oh, yeah! Oh, yeah. And suddenly your best line is your worst line, because you just topped it.

PM: [laughs]

MG: And now it's, "Ah, shit. Now I've got to go back." It's a patience game, it's a persistence game. But I know when I'm there, when the hairs on my own arm raise, and I feel the goose bumps on my arms come up. I know I got it then, because that's what the truth and a great story will do to a human being, you feel it physically.

PM: Yeah.

MG: And until I get there, I'm not there yet.

PM: And I think it's really wrong to exhibit a lack of patience with a song. I mean, it wasn't long ago a guy came over to write something, and he says, "Well, let's tie this up. This is like our fifth meeting on this song." And I look at him and I say, "What are you talking about? So what do we got, 20 hours into this song? What's the big deal, man?"

MG: Yeah. Well, the big deal is that he's got a staff writer's job and he needs to turn twelve in a year.

PM: [laughs]

MG: And so it becomes, "Let's just throw it together and make it good--great is too hard--and move on to the next one."

PM: Right.

MG: Because he just wants to earn his paycheck. See, I'm not that kind of a songwriter. I don't do staff writer deals. I'm not interested in what Faith Hill wants to record next. I think that's at war with what I do. What I'm trying to do is create something that's going to last a lot longer than me. So it means I'm not that prolific. It means that it can take me a year to write a song. It means that I'm tortured. I mean, I can end up in a fetal position over trying to find the right word. I know it's out there. I know it's out there. But damn it, where is it? [laughs]

PM: I mean, unless it's a really happy song, if I haven't cried over a song, I think it's bullshit. You know?

MG: Yeah. And those songs, you can't write fifty of those a year. I mean, it depends. These generalizations are tough, because there's always going to be an exception.

PM: Sure.

MG: But I know that there's not that many of those songs for me. But I'd rather write a whole lot less and have the songs be really, really, really good. Because I'm not trying to run a race, or play the "whoever's got the most songs wins" game. It's not that for me. Being a singer songwriter and being on the road and making CDs, I am sort of in control of the pace that I do it at. And fortunately I'm lucky enough to be able to take my time with it.  continue

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