DG: [laughs] Well, that's a good question. There are so many things. Well, only a pal might know...? [laughs]

PM: How about maybe his personality or his nature.

DG: Well, he was into all kinds of things, movies and, you know, he was a very knowledgeable guy on books and art. I mean, you could talk just about anything. You could talk to him about paintings by Heironymous Bosch or the Three Stooges.

PM: [laughs] Oh, that's great.

DG: [laughs] I mean, he was a multidimensional guy, and a very talented artist himself.

PM: Truly.

DG: The cover artwork that he did for Not For Kids Only, are you familiar with that?

PM: Yes.

DG: He did that in three minutes. I said, "Jerry, we're out of time. You've got to do this," you know? "Okay." He goes out to his car and gets his paint supplies. He always kept his paintbrushes and pens and stuff with him, and paper. And he just drew that. He didn't draw one and then rip it up and draw the next. He just drew it. Then he got out his little watercolors and just dabbed some color on there, and there it was. And if you look at his picture in there, he really nailed himself. I don't look anything like that, what he drew of me, but he captured one of his expressions.

PM: That's amazing.

DG: He was a very in-the-moment guy, and the most down-to-earth. He really -- he couldn't stand his own celebrity, you know. He just didn't feel comfortable with that at all. And I think that was kind of an albatross around his neck. But he didn't let it get in the way. He was just a regular guy. When we were hanging out, I mean, he didn't come over with a chauffeur or anything. Around a Grateful Dead gig, it was a different story.

PM: Sure. I'd see him around Marin County.

DG: He just wanted to be a normal guy. He didn't think he was anything special. He didn't want to be treated special. He would go out of his way to make anybody around feel comfortable. He was very sensitive to other people.

PM: While we're on the subject, are there going to be more CDs, video or film footage of you and Jerry?

DG: Well, there's probably another good album's worth.

PM: Great.

DG: And then there may be one -- I always figured the last one would be called The Bottom of the Barrel. And we'll have a picture of the bottom of a barrel with a bunch of tape.

PM: [laughs] He'd like that.

DG: [laughs] It wouldn't be bad, but it would be probably alternate versions, because some of these things we recorded we have many versions of. And it amazes me how most of everything we did is pretty usable. At the time, you know, we weren't really thinking about that. We'd usually do more than one take, but sometimes not.

PM: And it probably was in the domain of just having fun and rolling tape.

DG: Right, yeah. And it was only the first record and Not For Kids Only that were completed while Jerry was alive. And for those, we definitely drew a line of demarcation and said, "This is a record now." But all the other stuff was just a continuing process of getting together and playing. We didn't really want to put a time frame on it, you know, because it was just something we did. It wasn't like any other recording session. It wasn't like business or anything -- not like you have to get in there at 10:00 and the session will be over at 1:00.

PM: Yeah, it's like, "I'm in the neighborhood. I'm coming over."

DG: He would literally call up and say, "Well, I'm around the corner. What are you doing?" That's how I tricked him into that kids' album, because he didn't like that idea at all.

PM: He didn't?

DG: No. He said, "Nah, I can't do that!"

PM: [laughs]  continue