A Conversation with Eliza Gilkyson (continued)

PM: When you say "New Age," that's a period of your work that I don't know at all.

EG: Good.

[laughter]

PM: But I read about you--

EG: Well, I shouldn't divorce myself from a part of my own self-discovery process. But it was sort of shameful in that I think I just didn't have any money, and my production was all--I used drum machines and I used synthesizers because that was all I could afford. But it ended up being very wonky and--although--and I had a lot of belief systems then that I have no idea what I was thinking. [laughs] It was just a process in my path where I had some belief systems that I don't necessarily stand by anymore.

PM: Those periods are amazing where you look back and you think, "Well, I don't know what the hell I was thinking, but I was thinking it."

EG: Yeah, I was just there with that. I really did think that's how things were. And now I'm just mortified that I... But if you look at it, you just see, like so many people of my generation, we tried--we kissed a lot of frogs.

PM: [laughs] Yeah, ain't it the truth? I'm in the habit of asking people, to some artists' true dismay, if they consider themselves a spiritual person. And yet, it seems like you and I have been asking and answering that question since we sat down on the couch.

EG: Yeah. I think most people would agree there's a difference between being a religious person and a spiritual person.

PM: Well, the people that know, would, anyway.

EG: Yeah, right.

PM: But most people--an artist I talked to this morning, he just moaned.

EG: Oh, really? Wow. Well, maybe that's something our generation is comfortable discussing. Who knows?

PM: Yeah, but he was our generation.

[laughter]

EG: That's funny. Well, I have friends who do not consider themselves spiritual or religious, and yet they walk the most ethical path. They have a moral code, and take full responsibility for the lives that they lead, and I think that is a spiritual path.

PM: Absolutely.

EG: And they don't believe in anything. And they would be mortified if someone accused them of that. They're very clear and strongly not into--

PM: Believers, yeah, right.

EG: Yeah. And they don't want call themselves atheists, because they--[laughs] like I have a friend who says, "Why would I want to be part of an organization that is just about not believing something?"

[laughter]

EG: "That seems ridiculous." But I guess I have been a conscious, active seeker. And I can't say that I have answers. [laughs] But I can say that I've quested for a certain amount of self-knowledge and understanding. And that interests me as well as compels me. I'm just that mental kind of makeup of a person that it's better for me to put my mind into why am I here and what does it mean to be a human being on this planet in this time. It's better for me to put my mind to task at those questions than other things like why does she have bigger breasts than I do?

PM: Right.

EG: Because I could go there, too. So I'd rather put my mind to those things. I'd better serve myself.

PM: Are there certain teachers with whom you've aligned yourself in that spiritual way?

EG: Well, I've kissed a lot of frogs in that department, too. I had a kind of new Christian period.

PM: Really?

EG: I had a guru at one point.

PM: Who was that?

EG: The guru Maharaji, the young guy. I took the vows, and I learned the meditation techniques, and I did that, badly, for a few years. And I wrote a lot of songs, sort of devotional songs during that time period. So, yes, I tried on a lot of different things. But ultimately I find myself aligning with Buddhism more than any of the others because that's sort of nonreligious. It's really just about being alone with one's self, and starting from there, and working backwards into being nothing. [laughs]

PM: And when you do that, is it on the Tibetan side, or the mindfulness side, or the Zen side, or--

EG: I think it's much more about the mindfulness. I'm not into the hierarchy. I mean, there are deities I find interesting, but I'm not a student or I'm not knowledgeable.

PM: You're not into the ritualistic and all that stuff?

EG: No. To me it's about the mindfulness of the moment, acceptance, and also action. I really think that action is part--and that's one of the reasons I've become a political being. I used to be into that sort of passive, whatever happens, it's all good, kind of overview. But I don't feel that way anymore. I believe, for myself, right now, that actually resisting and acting in this world, in the material plane with a body, and trying to work with inertia and matter grows huge muscles. And that interests me.

PM: Yeah, I suddenly want to make a T-shirt that says "It's not all good."

EG: Exactly. I agree. And you look at the Tibetans, and how they're moving around in the world right now. They're political activists. And I think that's of note.

PM: Yeah, His Holiness--

EG: He's a political activist. That's what he is, really, basically.

PM: Sure.

EG: And he's interested in, of course, alleviating human suffering, but he's also mostly interested in freeing his own people.

PM: Right.

EG: He's a nationalist, in that sense. And I think that's interesting.

PM: I love the way you talk about love, in "Borderline," or "I Think About You." It's so nice to hear somebody grown-up talk about love.

EG: Uh-huh, yeah. Well, I'm really good at not having long-term relationships. I'm not good at hanging in somehow. I mean, I try, but I think I have, in the past, picked people who were in for a good four or five years, and then were ready to stop. And I'm sure I had my part to play in all of that.

PM: Doubtless.

EG: I think I have been attracted to non-commitment types [laughs] in the past.

PM: Right.

EG: And so that's been my pattern, anyways. And that says a lot about my inabilities to commit. [laughs] So I think I'm working on that. I think I've made progress in that.

PM: And besides, I think there's a lot to be said for four or five year relationships.

EG: I think serial monogamy is fine. I think, above all, honest.

PM: Yeah.

EG: I think you can't lose if you are truly honest. I think there's plenty to learn. And I'm okay with four or five year lessons, but I don't like repeating my patterns over and over.

PM: Right.

EG: And I don't like feeling that I'm stuck and haven't made progress. Then I really wonder about it. But I think the best thing for me has been to not be with someone. That's been my best teacher.

PM: Is that the phase you're in?

EG: I've just met someone, and we've been hanging out for six months. And this is a very, very different kind of person, and I think we have great potential to be long-term partners. But it's a completely different scenario. He's not my usual type.

PM: Wow. He's not from the artistic sector?

EG: No. He's a political activist, though.

PM: Ah.

EG: Yeah. We met at a rally. And he's been on a very, very separate journey. I mean, he's younger than I, but I think we see things very similarly. His work really impresses me, but it's not the same work that I do, and I think that's healthy for me.

PM: Yeah. Would you tell me something about that great song, "Is It Like Today?"

EG: I met Karl Wallinger yesterday.

PM: Wow.

EG: Yeah, he had the record. I had to know if he'd heard my version of it. I was so afraid.

PM: So who is he, and where did you find that song?

EG: He's from World Party, a wonderful British--

PM: Oh, he's from World Party.

EG: Yeah, yeah. And he was also in the Water Boys.

PM: Oh.

EG: He's here at SXSW. That would be the best band you'll see this weekend, World Party. I don't know if they're playing somewhere, but if they are, that is the band to see. They were on the radio yesterday. I went to the radio station because I wanted to meet him. I've never met him before.

PM: And did he really like your version?

EG: He said he did, yeah. He recognized me, and I was thrilled. That's like going to see--that's like [laughs] going to see the Pope or something.

PM: So you'd heard that song on a record, then?

EG: It was on Bang! I just think it's an incredible overview of the history of the patriarchy. [laughs]

PM: Yeah.

EG: In a nutshell, he nailed it. And I couldn't do it myself better, so I just went and did his song.

PM: And just musically, melodically speaking, there are turns in melody that are so brilliant.

EG: He's really one of the masters at creating deep, deep lyrics with fabulous pop, memorable melodies, and interesting chord progressions. I mean, that's what I love about him. He's like Ron Sexsmith, or Bruce Cockburn--who's really able to get topical and spiritual, I would say, but without being preachy or non-musical. That's a real art.

PM: And that song, and like Ron's material in particular, I'm really amazed by guys and women who are melodic geniuses.

EG: Yeah, exactly. My dad had a partner in the industry years ago. And I remember when I was just in my early thirties or something, he said, "The real test of a song is after you hear it, can you hum the melody." And it's amazing when you think about it.

PM: It's so old school. It's beautiful.

EG: It's old school philosophy that is really true. I mean, do you just hum the melody? Could you remember it? And I think God, you know, no. A lot of the music that I like today I couldn't sit down and go--after I heard it, I couldn't think of--

PM: Now, that song we're talking about--

EG: Oh!

PM: I don't know that I could hum the melody, but every time it goes by I'm like [gasps] "Oh, God that's good."

EG: I know. It's utterly engaging.

PM: But it's really so tricky that I don't know if I could hum the melody.

EG: Yeah.

PM: But it sure does knock me out every time it goes by.

EG: Yeah, I know. And that chorus, just so simple. And he's really good at those simple choruses that really state the point in four words. Yeah, he's one of the ones I really look up to, because he also, in his production, he sticks with very organic instrumentation. He just piles on the instruments, but they're totally interesting.  continue

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