A Conversation with Krishna Das (continued)

KD: And I said to him, "I just did it live," because Live on Earth had just come out. And he said, "It doesn't sound live." [laughs]

PM: Wow.

KD: And I went, "Oh, okay." And then the conversation went on to other things. That was it. Next day I get a message on my phone. "Hi, it's Rick. I got some ideas about the project." He said he really thought we should do this and that. So I called him back. I said, "Rick, you said 'we'?"

PM: [laughs]

KD: He said, "Yeah, I want to produce." "Oh. Oh yeah, sure, okay."

[laughter]

PM: What kind of a cat is he? How old is he and--

KD: He's quite a cat. He's really something. He's one of a kind.

I think he's about fifty. Maybe late forties.

PM: And what kind of a guy? A soft-spoken guy? An aggressive guy?

KD: He's a very aware guy. He's very, very on top of stuff. He's got an incredible mental presence. And he's really plugged into music. He lives for music, breathes music. And he's functioning, obviously, in a very rare atmosphere. See, he has the ability to hear what you want to sound like. And then, to help you make that sound better, and then to know how to get the people to hear it the way you want them to hear it. There's three things there, and he's just so incredible that way.

PM: Wow. Where did he come from?

KD: He's a Queens guy. When he started Def Jam he was living in Queens, at his parents' house.

PM: Amazing. [laughs]

KD: Yeah.

PM: Now, on the All One CD, I really dig that African section. How did that come about, and whose idea was that?

KD: [laughs] Well, first of all, I've spent some time in South Africa. And for years I'd listened to nothing else but township music.

PM: I see.

KD: I just was so taken by it.

PM: What years were you hanging out there?

KD: I'm not exactly sure, to tell you the truth. But it was the year that Mandela got out of jail. Right after Graceland was done. [1986] And in fact, we worked at the same studio with the same engineer that had helped with Graceland. And I recorded a couple of jazz records with Rene McLean, Jackie McLean's son.

PM: Wow.

KD: He was living there in South Africa, and married a South African woman. And we did a record for him there. We became friends, because I met him when we had recorded Jackie in L.A. He said, "Well, come to South Africa," and I just laughed. But then, in fact, we got to be very friendly. And once on the way back from India, I stopped in South Africa. And we did this recording. And I met Hugh Masekela and Miriam Makeba, and all the--

PM: The biggies.

KD: --and their bands, and all these incredible musicians.

PM: Wow.

KD: It was unbelievable. I always loved their music, and I felt very close to it. And then on the day of the recording, the day the recording was to start, I took a couple of CDs with me in the car. And I almost never listen to the music in the car--I don't know, it's just a quiet space for me. And I put in this CD, and it happened to be the Indestructible Beat of Soweto. And there was this one track that had such a groove. And I just started singing Hare Krishna over it. And I thought, "Frickin' Ay, I got to do this!"

PM: [laughs]

KD: And that's exactly how it happened.

PM: Incredible.

KD: Just at the very moment the recording started, I found that track by chance, and I knew I had to do it.

PM: And the players got there with no problem at all.

KD: Absolutely. I mean, these guys were incredible.

PM: Yeah, some hot players.

KD: Everyone was overqualified to play with me. They are really great musicians. Everybody there was fantastic, right on it.

PM: Wow. Now, aside from your guru, are there other living or recently deceased spiritual teachers from whom you learned in this life?

KD: Oh, yeah, many. I've been blessed to have met many great yogis and holy people over the years, yeah. It's just continually shot me up again with faith that it's all really true, and we really can find a way to live in this world in a good way. I've met incredible souls over the years and seen amazing things, it's a blessing.

PM: Are you connected with the Ramana Maharishi tradition, and the people from his lineage?

KD: Inside I'm very close with Ramana Maharishi. I've been to Arunchala, his place. And I read his books, stories about him. And I feel very close to him.

PM: One of the most amazing guys that ever lived.

KD: Absolutely. And you don't get the whole picture from most of the books because the people who wrote the books were the intellectuals, and he had a whole full-blown thing going on there, in every way. And even though he taught this one practice mainly, you know, "who am I"--

PM: Right.

KD: --he had a whole devotional scene going on as well. And it was an amazing scene. And the stories about him are so great. You have to find--there's a book called--a three-volume series called The Power of the Presence by David Goldman. And it's these longer stories about the devotees with their lives with Ramana. And it's mind-blowing to see him, the human aspects of him, and how he interacted with people. It's extraordinary.

PM: Well, thanks for that. I'm going to hunt that down.

KD: Yeah, it's around.

PM: I often ask a question like this of our interview subjects, and I think the answer in your case might be unique: What do you see up ahead, and what would you like to see happen?

KD: If I had my way, I would want everybody in the whole world to have what they want and what they needed, because why shouldn't they, you know? And the real sad and difficult thing is that people want happiness, they want this feeling, they want to be a certain way, and they reach out for things that they think are going to give it to them, but they don't get it. And so their own actions create suffering for themselves, rather than the happiness that they want. And it's so hard to see that.

It's really just a question of bad aim, that we all have such bad aim. We reach out for things, and then they morph right before our eyes and change into suffering. We reach out for things that we hope are going to give us this feeling, whether it's love or whether it's relationships, or even drugs, you know, we reach out for it because we want that feeling. But in fact, we're reaching for stuff that winds up causing us more and more suffering. So it would be great if we could just rewrite that script.

PM: Yeah. And the good news is that we can. [laughs] I'm so happy to have met you, and I'm very grateful for your time today.

KD: It's my pleasure.

PM: And I look forward to our next live opportunity together.

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