A Conversation with Leonard Podolak (continued)

PM: So when you take a band like The Duhks, where each member has so much personality and so much personal power, when you get that driving a bunch of young people in the clan, how do you keep the peace when inevitable skirmishes occur?

LP: It's just like a family. I mean, the thing about it is that skirmishes are inevitable.

PM: Sure.

LP: Daily.

[laughter]

LP: But the thing is, it is just like a family. With a real family and people who truly love and respect the hell out of each other, you get past it. You know? I mean, here's the thing: We toured last year from February until November, and then took three weeks off, and then crammed the record in three weeks. It's really funny, we had some rehearsal on the end of the tour where we had this string of gigs in North Carolina, so we're basing ourselves out of Black Mountain and just going out from Black Mountain, like spokes. You know what I mean?

PM: Right.

LP: So we had like these four periods of three days each in Black Mountain, at our friend Fox Watson's place. And we're like, "Let's rehearse." So we worked up a bunch of songs. Right? And then we took three weeks off, and then we came back and started rehearsing. And Tim O'Brien came up and brought a few more songs. And all those songs that we'd originally rehearsed in North Carolina--none of those made it on the record. We took a break, and then did three weeks of rehearsal, went to Australia, did a couple more rehearsals when we got back. And it was like less than a month--and I'm not saying seven days a week, I'm saying like four days a week, three hours, four hours at the most. You know what I mean?

PM: So the tunes were really fresh?

LP: Yeah. But we put this record together, and it's our best record, by a mile

PM: Wow.

LP: By a mile.

PM: What kind of tunes did Tim bring to the table?

LP: He bought a couple of gospel tunes. And this was kind of funny, because my dad said, "Leonard, I’ve got this great gospel record. There are two songs that you have to do." And this was like the weird most psychic thing. My dad suggested "The Leather Winged Bat" on the first record.

PM: Right.

LP: And he suggested "Dance Hall Girls" on the second record.

PM: Wow.

LP: So when my old man says, "There are a couple of songs that I think you should do," people listen.

PM: Yeah, he's got the band’s ear, sure.

LP: Yeah. People take it seriously. So he suggested these two songs. And Jessica was like, "Oh, wow, they sound great." And then lo and behold, Tim O'Brien was listening to the same frickin' record and suggested the same two songs!

PM: That's bizarre. Now, what is this record that they were both fired up about?

LP: I forget what it's called, but it's an old gospel record, Bessie Smith. One song is called "Turtle Dove," which she calls "Turkel Dove." And then this other one called "Moses." [singing] "Moses, Moses, don't get lost." It's just this great song.

PM: Wow.

LP: And then he also brought this one by this fellow named Sean Burn who's a songwriter in Nashville, this funky sort of Tom Waits-esque kind of song called "The Old Cook Pot"--"Mama's going to bargain with the old cook pot." And so that was neat. He brought three songs. And then Gary Paczosa, the co-producer, also brought this great song that we learned in the studio.

PM: What did he bring?

LP: Paczosa brought this song by a woman named Katie Herzig, who used to be in this band called Newcomers Home, from Colorado. They recently split. And so he was like, "I've always wanted to cut this track with another band. And you guys are perfect for it." And it's so crazy, Tim O'Brien played a bit of electric guitar. It's an electric guitar with a bit of tremolo on it.

PM: Really? You don't often see Tim cutting that.

LP: I know. It's great. And I ran my banjo through an amp with distortion.

PM: Really? [laughs]

LP: They miked the banjo acoustically, and then we had the amp in the other room, and they miked that separately. So you can hear--

PM: Were you using the amp distortion or a separate pedal?

LP: No, the amp distortion.

PM: Wow. And what kind of amp? Do you remember?

LP: No, I don't. I have no idea.

PM: Totally cool.

LP: [laughs] Yeah. So this one track is a real departure from anything we've done, but it's still very clearly Duhks.

PM: So obviously they mixed the clean sound and the overdriven sound of the banjo together?

LP: Yeah.

PM: Right. Okay.

LP: It's so cool. And it was really neat to be in the studio. Tim did the electric track while I was cutting the banjo rough.

PM: [laughs]

LP: Because we'd learned the song so soon before, my part wasn't really happening yet.

PM: Right.

LP: But it was neat to be in the studio with Tim and that whole thing. But yeah, so that one we learned right in the studio. So it was neat to come in and record a handful of the songs that we'd worked up, but also really get influenced and take the opportunity to learn from our producers. I mean, it was a wonderful, actual co-production.

PM: And there's something magical about cutting tunes that you really don't know that well yet.

LP: Yeah, I know. Because again, you're at the seat of your pants, and it's a lot of heart and soul.

PM: Yeah. Buddy Miller says, "Oh, I don’t like cutting tunes that everybody knows." He says, "Basically, when the red light goes on, nobody knows what the hell we're going to play or how the song goes, and everybody is just flying by the seat of their pants. That's when you get something good." [laughs]

LP: It's true. I mean, this cut is huge, too. It's just so cool. I can't wait for people to hear it. I think it's going to wind up being the single.

PM: Wow.

LP: And I really hope so, anyway.

PM: Now, what was the chemistry between Tim O'Brien and Paczosa like? They're good buddies, right?

LP: Yeah. They're huge. I honestly couldn't think of a better team to work with. I've worked with great people. Mark Shatz and Norm Dugada, again, where the vibe was so simpatico and easy.

PM: Right.

LP: Gary and Tim have worked together on a number of Tim's projects, and so they had really great communication, and a really great understanding of what each other's roles were, and a lot of respect for each other's expertise. And the record went by in the blink of an eye. It was two and a half weeks or something. I can't believe that it's done. [laughs]

PM: Wow. And were they huge fans of the Duhks, too, both guys?

LP: Tim was, and Gary has since become, since recording the last record. Because he worked with Bela as well, on the last record.

PM: Oh, that's right.

LP: We met Tim a few times at the different Canadian and American folk festivals, and also one in Europe, too, the Turnip Festival in Denmark. And so we'd sort of developed a bit of a rapport with them. But by the time he was in Telluride, last June, he was watching the band, and you could see him sitting there, and he had tears in his eyes.

PM: Wow.

LP: That was when I knew, "Man, this guy is a fan of the Duhks." And certainly we are huge, huge fans of his. Oh, my God.

PM: Yeah. What's not to like. He's really one of the amazing ones. [see our interview with Tim]

LP: He really is one of the amazing ones. And so this year, this past year in Denmark, we sort of let him know. When we were in Denmark, Jordan kind of told him that, "Hey, we're kind of thinking about asking you to produce our record." And he came up to me and said that Jordan has mentioned something, and he just said, "Leonard, man, I would love to produce your record." And that was very cool. And I said, "Okay." And we were talking to Bela, because he'd done such a great job on the one beforehand. But I just said, "Well, we've got to make sure that"--and I sort of knew that Bela couldn't do it because of his schedule. But as soon as we found out, in fact, that he couldn't, we called Tim. And it was really cool, because the label was really into that idea, too. And so it just worked. The stars lined perfectly. And working with Tim was so great.

PM: As hard as it is to define, I thought the phrase on the Sugar Hill website about your music was pretty amazing, about it being "a North American vein of world music."

LP: It is world music. I mean, when you say World, people immediately think African music.

PM: So are there any other ethnic or pop musics you would like to tap into with the Duhks, or solo, like African music or Indian music, or that kind of stuff?

LP: Well, I don't know. There's certainly a huge fondness for Indian music in our band. None of us can really play it--kind of, we can. Scott sort of can play some stuff on the Pandiero. But again, it's his own thing. And Jordan is a huge John McLaughlin fan, and has learned a bit about that stuff, and can actually play a couple of tunes. But I mean, really, we're just discovering as we go along.

PM: Right.

LP: We're just discovering. I mean, certainly for me, it's the old time and the Irish that really blow my mind. And what we do with that, like with Scott, is pretty huge. But I was just going to say that we just played this festival in Australia, the Woodford Folk Festival, which really went right along with the whole idea of the Duhks. It was this six-day festival that has 25,000 people a day, with twenty-seven music venues. And again, we played in a small tent that held 300 people. We also played in the amphitheater in front of 9,000, and playing the same music.

[laughter]

LP: And it worked like a charm in both places. So it's true, our music does speak to all age groups, and all ilks. There's no class line of our music. It's music for all the people.

PM: It's a beautiful thing. Leonard, thanks so much for all your time, today. I'm really glad we stayed at it until we got it.

LP: Hey, no sweat, Frank. Yeah, me, too. And yes, once again, sorry you had to chase me around twenty time zones.

PM: That's all right. Love to the band. And I look forward seeing you at our next opportunity.

LP: Hell yeah, man. Thanks so much for calling.