A Conversation with Richard Julian (continued)

RJ: And it was changing my music subsequently, too. I started to approach guitar differently. I started to approach my songwriting differently, and to make decisions based on what sounded good on my guitar, as opposed to how big the chorus was or how much of a tuneful gigantic chorus I could deliver to impress this guy that I'm going to do a demo for.

PM: Right.

RJ: And just writing the way I felt like it, and writing whatever came out. And again, listening to the instruments, letting the instrument do work for you, and just a completely different approach started to emerge at that point.

PM: In this particular and very enlightening period, were you seeing anybody that comes to mind who really opened your ears to songwriting, or was it just where your ears and heart were at?

RJ: At that point, a lot of my heroes were pretty established, those I thought were badasses as songwriters. So I wouldn't say there was anybody in the clubs that was really, really changing me on a direct level. But the overall vibe was changing. I was seeing Jesse Harris a lot at that point. He was working with a great band. And they'd just play late and have fun. Norah [Jones] was coming up. Jenifer Jackson was always down there. I've always been a huge fan of hers.

PM: Absolutely.

RJ: She started making me think of things in a more simplistic way, maybe. And while I'd be reluctant to give a huge nod of credit to any of those people, I'm happy to give huge accolades of respect and admiration.

PM: But it wasn't like that.

RJ: Yeah. It was still my own style, but just kind of backing off any external bullshit that I was imposing on my own style, basically.

PM: Yeah. It was your insides that were changing, yeah.

RJ: Exactly.

PM: So you had already worked with [producer] Brad Jones on the last of the Blackbird Records, right?

RJ: Yeah, on Smash Palace.

PM: How did you know about Brad Jones in that period?

RJ: When I was doing my first record, I was going to play in Nashville at the Bluebird. And an attorney--a music attorney I was working with at the tim--told me that I should talk to Brad. I had been talking to a few producers about doing Smash Palace, and had been kind of underwhelmed with the various indie producers that I'd spoken to, and was thinking about just doing it myself. And then my attorney, of all things, said, "Hey, you should meet up with Brad Jones." And I didn't take it very seriously, to be honest with you, for a number of reasons. Number one, my attorney had turned my onto a few records that I didn't like--

PM: Yeah.

RJ: --up to that point. So his advice didn't come like a sign-off for me.

PM: Right.

RJ: And secondly, this guy's name was Brad Jones, and he lives in Nashville. That just sounded really cheesey to me, like some Nashville dude with a name like Brad--it was like, "I don't want to work with Brad Jones in Nashville."

PM: [laughs]

RJ: At that point I had no idea how cool and completely left of center and underground Brad was.

PM: Right.

RJ: And then I called my label that day, because my lawyer was trying to get in touch with Brad, whom he didn't know, actually, and trying to get him to come to the show at the Bluebird. And then I called the label, and I told them about it, and the label president, Billy, Ivan Boesky's son, he said, "Oh, I know Brad Jones. He does Jill Sobule's records. Do you know those records?" I said, "No. I've done a show with her, but I don't know her records." He said, "Man, I want you to know this guy's work before you meet him, because I don't want you to blow this off." And so I went out to the store, and I bought a couple of Jill's records and threw them on in the rental car, and was immediately impressed and blown away by Brad's sense of instrumentation and arrangement.

And then he came to the show that night, and loved the music. And he had a hole to do it in February, which was right when we wanted to do it. And I went back to his studio, and we talked a little bit. His studio was a little more lower-fi than what I was used to, so I had a little trepidation. And Brad's whole method of communication was lower-fi. I mean, he wouldn't get back to me for a week, and he didn't have his cell phone--just all of that stuff.

PM: [laughs] Not very New York, yeah.

RJ: There was a couple times where I started to think, "Oh, no, who the f**k is this guy?"

PM: "This guy's a hick."

RJ: Exactly. But then, in the end, we showed up, and man, we hit it off so big. He's one of my very best friends. And I think he'd probably say the same. We're super tight. And we have a great working relationship that's passed through three records now. And he's just a beautiful person, who's supposedly in New York right now. I'm actually trying to get a hold of him today. But again, I still can't get a hold of him [laughs] so nothing has really changed very much, I suppose.

PM: Well, actually, yeah, I had sushi with him two nights ago, and gave him the keys to the Soho loft that my brother Jon is renting. That's where he's going to do overdubs on the new Jenifer Jackson CD.

RJ: Awesome.

PM: Because they're going to do it at the Magic Shop around the corner, and then they're going to finish up in the loft.

RJ: Well, I've heard her new batch, and they're great. She's always great. Jenifer is--her songs are completely Zen. They're focused, very simple. I love some of the things she says in her tunes, and some of the things she chooses to write about and say. They're so simplistic, but she finds the heart of them, basically by just giving them a soaring melody to sing with against. It brings something out of the most otherwise mundane parts of conversations or aspects of our lives.

PM: I agree. The girl is a frickin' jewel.

RJ: Yeah. She's an amazing, funny, ironic person, and all of that, too. [Check out some video that we shot of JJ recently, playing solo at her place.]

PM: So after Smash Palace, then you did the incredible record with Brad, Good Life, in a more intimate way--

RJ: Yeah.

PM: --in the house, basically, right?

RJ: Yeah. Well, that record was made on no budget. That was me having a week vacation from my day job, coming to Nashville, and telling Brad I had no money, just paying the musicians off my Amex Card. I got Amex to send me some checks. I paid Mickey Grimm and all of those guys off of that, made a promise to pay Brad as the record sold. And he brought a very minimal amount of equipment up from the studio, and ADAT and a small Mackie, and a few mics. And we recorded it in his living room there, with a few gobos around. [sound baffles]

PM: Pat Buchanan just walked into the studio. [Just proofing the interview this morning at 6 a.m., I am forced to crank "Halo," off his CD reviewed in this issue.]

RJ: Awesome.

PM: [to Pat] I'm doing an interview with Richard Julian.

Pat Buchanan: Dick Julian?

[laughter]

RJ: Yeah, I know, he's going to say "Dick Julian." He does this Sammy Davis imitation that really cracks me up. Tell him hello.

PM: [laughs] Unbelievable.

RJ: Yeah.

PB: Tell him I said hey.

PM: He pulls an electric sitar off the wall, and he'll be part of the tape.

RJ: Yeah, that'll be the end of that, man.

PM: [laughs]

RJ: We've heard the last of him for about a half an hour.

PB: Do you want me to come back?

PM: No, no, no. Not at all, Pat. Hang out.

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